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	<title>Comments on: Against Summers (w/ Update)</title>
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		<title>By: Not a Time to Draw Conclusions?</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/11/07/against-summers/comment-page-1/#comment-473</link>
		<dc:creator>Not a Time to Draw Conclusions?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 08:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=589#comment-473</guid>
		<description>[...] the progressive critique of Obama&#8217;s cabinet has been build precisely on pragmatic grounds, here and elsewhere. When Obama appoints highly ideological key architects of our financial crisis [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the progressive critique of Obama&#8217;s cabinet has been build precisely on pragmatic grounds, here and elsewhere. When Obama appoints highly ideological key architects of our financial crisis [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/11/07/against-summers/comment-page-1/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=589#comment-471</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I guess one thing to say is that Summers is a very smart guy -- probably a bright theoretical economist, by all accounts -- but a bad administrator and real-world economists.  I think his position among economists was not unique, though by no means was it the only position on questions of development, and so there was (and is) lots of positive reinforcement for positions that, in my view, survive and do not besmirch the reputations of people because those positions are ideologically compatible with the needs of powerful people.  This is not a conspiracy theory -- I think Summers believes sincerely in his own economic philosophy, but I think he was so fixed in his views that it has taken a crisis as big as the recent economic financial meltdown to shift him a little to the left.  Summers is also famous for saying that economists at development organizations, like the World Bank, should &quot;Spread the truth -- the laws of economics are like the laws of engineering.  One set of laws works everywhere.&quot;  If this is his true belief, then it&#039;s easy to se how his total confidence in the system of economics he has been taught might trump things like contrary evidence.  If the evidence contradicts the theory, the evidence must be wrong.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess one thing to say is that Summers is a very smart guy &#8212; probably a bright theoretical economist, by all accounts &#8212; but a bad administrator and real-world economists.  I think his position among economists was not unique, though by no means was it the only position on questions of development, and so there was (and is) lots of positive reinforcement for positions that, in my view, survive and do not besmirch the reputations of people because those positions are ideologically compatible with the needs of powerful people.  This is not a conspiracy theory &#8212; I think Summers believes sincerely in his own economic philosophy, but I think he was so fixed in his views that it has taken a crisis as big as the recent economic financial meltdown to shift him a little to the left.  Summers is also famous for saying that economists at development organizations, like the World Bank, should &#8220;Spread the truth &#8212; the laws of economics are like the laws of engineering.  One set of laws works everywhere.&#8221;  If this is his true belief, then it&#8217;s easy to se how his total confidence in the system of economics he has been taught might trump things like contrary evidence.  If the evidence contradicts the theory, the evidence must be wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/11/07/against-summers/comment-page-1/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 03:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=589#comment-472</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks to Lee for some more substance to chew on regarding Summers. Clearly (to Lee) your resistance to Summers is not based on political correctness, but about real concerns about his thinking on policy issues. This is where my lack of understanding about global economic policy leaves me flailing. If Summers pursued policies that destroyed economies (in Lithuania and Russia, for example) and thinks it makes sense to pollute third-world countries, then it must say something important about our politics that Barack Obama would seriously consider him for this job. I&#039;m not sure what that important thing is, but I can&#039;t believe Obama is interested in destroying economies or polluting third-world countries. It raises all sorts of questions about our rhetoric when it comes to international development: How much of the rhetoric of development is a rationalization for the U.S. to pursue policies that serve its own interests at the expense of third-world countries, and how much of the rhetoric reflects an honest effort to manage the highly complex challenges people like Summers are apt to face? Does Summers&#039; ideology even make sense? And if Summers has a poor record on these sorts of issues, why doesn&#039;t that hurt his reputation. I feel like I might sound quite naive to someone who understands these issues better, but the truth is I&#039;m just ignorant of them. I&#039;ve defended Summers, however, because I don&#039;t want to see us shoot ourselves in the foot by putting cosmetics ahead of substance when it comes to these sorts of important appointments.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Lee for some more substance to chew on regarding Summers. Clearly (to Lee) your resistance to Summers is not based on political correctness, but about real concerns about his thinking on policy issues. This is where my lack of understanding about global economic policy leaves me flailing. If Summers pursued policies that destroyed economies (in Lithuania and Russia, for example) and thinks it makes sense to pollute third-world countries, then it must say something important about our politics that Barack Obama would seriously consider him for this job. I&#8217;m not sure what that important thing is, but I can&#8217;t believe Obama is interested in destroying economies or polluting third-world countries. It raises all sorts of questions about our rhetoric when it comes to international development: How much of the rhetoric of development is a rationalization for the U.S. to pursue policies that serve its own interests at the expense of third-world countries, and how much of the rhetoric reflects an honest effort to manage the highly complex challenges people like Summers are apt to face? Does Summers&#8217; ideology even make sense? And if Summers has a poor record on these sorts of issues, why doesn&#8217;t that hurt his reputation. I feel like I might sound quite naive to someone who understands these issues better, but the truth is I&#8217;m just ignorant of them. I&#8217;ve defended Summers, however, because I don&#8217;t want to see us shoot ourselves in the foot by putting cosmetics ahead of substance when it comes to these sorts of important appointments.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/11/07/against-summers/comment-page-1/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=589#comment-470</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Some more notes:  Summers was a proponent of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act&lt;/a&gt; — a bank deregulation bill, arguably a contributor to the current financial crisis — within the Clinton White House.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He also had this to say about the so-called antiglobalization protests in Seattle in 1999:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think the decision to support NAFTA was a crucial one because it was really a watershed as to whether America was going to stand for larger markets, was going to stand for forward defense of our interests by trying to have a more integrated global economy which countries were growing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t know that the Seattle protest against globalization, how linked are with some of the financial questions. I find them very sad because it seems to me that there’s an enormous amount of very valuable moral energy that is being very, very badly misplaced.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There are children who are working in textile businesses in Asia who would be prostitutes on the streets if they did not have those jobs.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is sort of a “If you don’t support the Iraq war you’re objectively pro-Saddam” type of argument.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Those poor misinformed protesters in Seattle–which, incidentally, had nothing to do with NAFTA, but the WTO–apparently were expending their energy in a way to help &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;promote&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; prostitution.  The argument is ridiculous on a number of levels that I don’t have time to get into.  It misunderstands what the protesters were protesting and constructs a straw man for the purpose of making seem as if there are only two choices:  accept globalization as people like Summers want it to look, or return to some rabid nationalist economic stone age.  These were never the only choices…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Anyway, the point is, Summers&#039; flaws are not &lt;strong&gt;one-off accidents&lt;/strong&gt; or &lt;strong&gt;inadvertant misstatements&lt;/strong&gt; on his part. His whole worldview, which he has admittedly to some degree been revising, is highly warped, and part of problem, in my view.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some more notes:  Summers was a proponent of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act" rel="nofollow">the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act</a> — a bank deregulation bill, arguably a contributor to the current financial crisis — within the Clinton White House.</p>
<p>He also had this to say about the so-called antiglobalization protests in Seattle in 1999:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think the decision to support NAFTA was a crucial one because it was really a watershed as to whether America was going to stand for larger markets, was going to stand for forward defense of our interests by trying to have a more integrated global economy which countries were growing.</p>
<p>I don’t know that the Seattle protest against globalization, how linked are with some of the financial questions. I find them very sad because it seems to me that there’s an enormous amount of very valuable moral energy that is being very, very badly misplaced.</p>
<p>There are children who are working in textile businesses in Asia who would be prostitutes on the streets if they did not have those jobs.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is sort of a “If you don’t support the Iraq war you’re objectively pro-Saddam” type of argument.</p>
<p>Those poor misinformed protesters in Seattle–which, incidentally, had nothing to do with NAFTA, but the WTO–apparently were expending their energy in a way to help <strong><em>promote</em></strong> prostitution.  The argument is ridiculous on a number of levels that I don’t have time to get into.  It misunderstands what the protesters were protesting and constructs a straw man for the purpose of making seem as if there are only two choices:  accept globalization as people like Summers want it to look, or return to some rabid nationalist economic stone age.  These were never the only choices…</p>
<p>Anyway, the point is, Summers&#8217; flaws are not <strong>one-off accidents</strong> or <strong>inadvertant misstatements</strong> on his part. His whole worldview, which he has admittedly to some degree been revising, is highly warped, and part of problem, in my view.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/11/07/against-summers/comment-page-1/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=589#comment-469</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;At the time that it was leaked, &lt;em&gt;The Economist &lt;/em&gt;thought we should take the memo and its argument seriously, writing:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;The language is crass, even for an internal memo. But look at it another way: Mr Summers is asking questions that the World Bank would rather ignore — and, on the economics, his points are hard to answer. The Bank should make this debate public.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, I completely agree with Ian that Summers shouldn&#039;t be removed from consideration because of a single poorly worded memo.  The memo needs to be put in the context of his whole career and his tenure as the chief of the bank.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The reason the memo was controversial--beyond the fact that people, including those at &lt;em&gt;The Economist&lt;/em&gt;, did not believe that it was satirical--was that its reasoning reflected the economic policies and logic characteristic of the Bank.  It seemed plausible for good reasons:  Summers had been &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081124/ames&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;personally involved&lt;/a&gt; in the economic destruction of Lithuania and Russia after the fall of communism, and he used his tenure at the Bank to push for &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberal&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;neoliberal&lt;/a&gt; economic policies around the world, and from what I&#039;ve seen of him (albeit a partial picture) he seems highly ideological.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As I said in my original post, he has to some degree changed his tune now, now that it&#039;s the U.S. suffering the effects of excessive economic liberalization, but his poor track record as a practical economist -- in crafting policies to improve the lives of real people -- speaks against him, as does his polarizing ideological demeanor and personal history.  We can do better.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the time that it was leaked, <em>The Economist </em>thought we should take the memo and its argument seriously, writing:</p>
<blockquote><p>The language is crass, even for an internal memo. But look at it another way: Mr Summers is asking questions that the World Bank would rather ignore — and, on the economics, his points are hard to answer. The Bank should make this debate public.</p></blockquote>
<p>Now, I completely agree with Ian that Summers shouldn&#8217;t be removed from consideration because of a single poorly worded memo.  The memo needs to be put in the context of his whole career and his tenure as the chief of the bank.</p>
<p>The reason the memo was controversial&#8211;beyond the fact that people, including those at <em>The Economist</em>, did not believe that it was satirical&#8211;was that its reasoning reflected the economic policies and logic characteristic of the Bank.  It seemed plausible for good reasons:  Summers had been <a href="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081124/ames" rel="nofollow">personally involved</a> in the economic destruction of Lithuania and Russia after the fall of communism, and he used his tenure at the Bank to push for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberal" rel="nofollow">neoliberal</a> economic policies around the world, and from what I&#8217;ve seen of him (albeit a partial picture) he seems highly ideological.</p>
<p>As I said in my original post, he has to some degree changed his tune now, now that it&#8217;s the U.S. suffering the effects of excessive economic liberalization, but his poor track record as a practical economist &#8212; in crafting policies to improve the lives of real people &#8212; speaks against him, as does his polarizing ideological demeanor and personal history.  We can do better.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/11/07/against-summers/comment-page-1/#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 04:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=589#comment-468</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I find it especially aggravating to think that Summers wouldn&#039;t be chosen because of his comments about women at Harvard. There is so much at stake in the selection of the next Treasury Secretary, and Obama and the Dems would do a brutal disservice to the country if they made their selection based on some criterion other than who will do the best job. It would be one thing if Summers was taking the position that women are inherently bad at math and science -- but Summers has apologized profusely. So let&#039;s get on with the people&#039;s business.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it especially aggravating to think that Summers wouldn&#8217;t be chosen because of his comments about women at Harvard. There is so much at stake in the selection of the next Treasury Secretary, and Obama and the Dems would do a brutal disservice to the country if they made their selection based on some criterion other than who will do the best job. It would be one thing if Summers was taking the position that women are inherently bad at math and science &#8212; but Summers has apologized profusely. So let&#8217;s get on with the people&#8217;s business.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/11/07/against-summers/comment-page-1/#comment-467</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=589#comment-467</guid>
		<description>At risk of using an argument from authority, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~kwn/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this man&#039;s brother&lt;/a&gt; used to be my boss. And what I heard from my former boss confirmed my suspiscions about Lawrence Summers - he can be socially impolitic, even inept, and certainly prone to putting his foot in his mouth, a la Joe Biden. I think his comment about women in science and the way that he dealt with the aftermath bear that out.
As far as the women in science comment goes, I know that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.president.harvard.edu/speeches/2005/womensci.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lawrence Summers&#039;s comments were taken out of context&lt;/a&gt;. While I must admit that I really don&#039;t know that much about his political disposition apropos of economics, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ft.com/comment/columnists/lawrencesummers&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;what I have read&lt;/a&gt; suggests that he&#039;s relatively moderate, at least as far as domestic economics goes. I&#039;m less familiar with his perspective on international trade.
From my point of view, &lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B06E7DE113FF930A25756C0A96F958260&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the thing that concerns me most&lt;/a&gt;, is that he considers (or perhaps consider&lt;em&gt;ed&lt;/em&gt;) Alan Greenspan one of his mentors. Of course, he made that comment back before Greenspan decided to politicize the Fed and destroy the Global economy.
Perhaps I&#039;m giving him too much the benefit of the doubt but, I&#039;m inclined to believe that Summers&#039;s &#039;reverting to the reflexive interventionism of mainstream economists&#039; is his genuine appraisal that it is the appropriate course of action for this moment in time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At risk of using an argument from authority, <a href="http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~kwn/" rel="nofollow">this man&#8217;s brother</a> used to be my boss. And what I heard from my former boss confirmed my suspiscions about Lawrence Summers &#8211; he can be socially impolitic, even inept, and certainly prone to putting his foot in his mouth, a la Joe Biden. I think his comment about women in science and the way that he dealt with the aftermath bear that out.<br />
As far as the women in science comment goes, I know that <a href="http://www.president.harvard.edu/speeches/2005/womensci.html" rel="nofollow">Lawrence Summers&#8217;s comments were taken out of context</a>. While I must admit that I really don&#8217;t know that much about his political disposition apropos of economics, <a href="http://www.ft.com/comment/columnists/lawrencesummers" rel="nofollow">what I have read</a> suggests that he&#8217;s relatively moderate, at least as far as domestic economics goes. I&#8217;m less familiar with his perspective on international trade.<br />
From my point of view, <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B06E7DE113FF930A25756C0A96F958260" rel="nofollow">the thing that concerns me most</a>, is that he considers (or perhaps consider<em>ed</em>) Alan Greenspan one of his mentors. Of course, he made that comment back before Greenspan decided to politicize the Fed and destroy the Global economy.<br />
Perhaps I&#8217;m giving him too much the benefit of the doubt but, I&#8217;m inclined to believe that Summers&#8217;s &#8216;reverting to the reflexive interventionism of mainstream economists&#8217; is his genuine appraisal that it is the appropriate course of action for this moment in time.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/11/07/against-summers/comment-page-1/#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=589#comment-466</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Reagrding Blumenthal&#039;s blog, he also writes this:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&quot;If Obama nominates Summers, he will send a dispiriting message to governments of developing countries -- especially in Africa -- just as they have begun to look at the United States as a beacon of hope.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I simply do not believe this assertion of Blumenthal&#039;s. Is there any evidence anywhere to support this argument other than this controversy over Summer&#039;s &quot;UNDER-polluted&quot; quote?  &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reagrding Blumenthal&#8217;s blog, he also writes this:</p>
<p>&#8220;If Obama nominates Summers, he will send a dispiriting message to governments of developing countries &#8212; especially in Africa &#8212; just as they have begun to look at the United States as a beacon of hope.&#8221;</p>
<p>I simply do not believe this assertion of Blumenthal&#8217;s. Is there any evidence anywhere to support this argument other than this controversy over Summer&#8217;s &#8220;UNDER-polluted&#8221; quote?  </p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/11/07/against-summers/comment-page-1/#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=589#comment-465</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I just checked out the memo and I can&#039;t believe the author intended for it to be taken seriously. Consider this excerpt:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&quot;I&#039;ve always though that under-populated countries in Africa are vastly UNDER-polluted, their air quality is probably vastly inefficiently low compared to Los Angeles or Mexico City. Only the lamentable facts that so much pollution is generated by non-tradable industries (transport, electrical generation) and that the unit transport costs of solid waste are so high prevent world welfare enhancing trade in air pollution and waste.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;People don&#039;t seriously talk about Africa being &quot;under-polluted,&quot; do they? In all capital letters? Is the reference to &quot;welfare enhancing trade in air pollution and waste&quot; meant to be taken seriously? I don&#039;t buy it, but I could be wrong.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just checked out the memo and I can&#8217;t believe the author intended for it to be taken seriously. Consider this excerpt:</p>
<p>&#8220;I&#8217;ve always though that under-populated countries in Africa are vastly UNDER-polluted, their air quality is probably vastly inefficiently low compared to Los Angeles or Mexico City. Only the lamentable facts that so much pollution is generated by non-tradable industries (transport, electrical generation) and that the unit transport costs of solid waste are so high prevent world welfare enhancing trade in air pollution and waste.&#8221;</p>
<p>People don&#8217;t seriously talk about Africa being &#8220;under-polluted,&#8221; do they? In all capital letters? Is the reference to &#8220;welfare enhancing trade in air pollution and waste&#8221; meant to be taken seriously? I don&#8217;t buy it, but I could be wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/11/07/against-summers/comment-page-1/#comment-464</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=589#comment-464</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It may be that Summers didn&#039;t write the quote that&#039;s been attributed to him. But my question still stands: Wasn&#039;t the quote itself obviously a joke, whoever wrote it? Do we have access to the actual document? I hope we aren&#039;t being duped by anti-Summers people who are throwing mud against the wall and waiting to see what sticks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be that Summers didn&#8217;t write the quote that&#8217;s been attributed to him. But my question still stands: Wasn&#8217;t the quote itself obviously a joke, whoever wrote it? Do we have access to the actual document? I hope we aren&#8217;t being duped by anti-Summers people who are throwing mud against the wall and waiting to see what sticks.</p>
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