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	<title>Comments on: Joe the Furious Plumber</title>
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	<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber/</link>
	<description>Yet another political blog</description>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber/comment-page-1/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ian &amp; rbates:

If you assume the hypothetical plumbing business is a sole proprietorship or type S corporation. Then the tax is on the revenue less expenses (as noted in 1040 Schedule C) so it&#039;s effectively profit.

So if Joe, who doesn&#039;t need to be a licensed plumber if he hires some, makes $250,000 but it costs him $200,000 in various expenses his taxes would not go up.  If fact he would have to have an extraordinarly successful to have an AGI above $250,000.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian &amp; rbates:</p>
<p>If you assume the hypothetical plumbing business is a sole proprietorship or type S corporation. Then the tax is on the revenue less expenses (as noted in 1040 Schedule C) so it&#8217;s effectively profit.</p>
<p>So if Joe, who doesn&#8217;t need to be a licensed plumber if he hires some, makes $250,000 but it costs him $200,000 in various expenses his taxes would not go up.  If fact he would have to have an extraordinarly successful to have an AGI above $250,000.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe the (Unlawful) Plumber and Sammy Davis Jr.</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber/comment-page-1/#comment-412</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe the (Unlawful) Plumber and Sammy Davis Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=513#comment-412</guid>
		<description>[...] WordPress.org       &#8592; Joe the Furious Plumber [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] WordPress.org       &larr; Joe the Furious Plumber [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rbates</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber/comment-page-1/#comment-411</link>
		<dc:creator>rbates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks Ian. I looked very quickly on Obama&#039;s website and it wasn&#039;t immediatley clear if the tax is based on revenue or profit.  I feel like McCain would have pointed that out if the tax was based off of revenue.  But, maybe I&#039;m assuming too much with him...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ian. I looked very quickly on Obama&#8217;s website and it wasn&#8217;t immediatley clear if the tax is based on revenue or profit.  I feel like McCain would have pointed that out if the tax was based off of revenue.  But, maybe I&#8217;m assuming too much with him&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber/comment-page-1/#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=513#comment-410</guid>
		<description>rbates: That&#039;s a good question. I was told that the tax is on $250,000 net -- that is, $250,000 profit. Right now, the tax rate is somewhere between 30% and 40%, and Obama is proposing an increase of about three percentage points.

If this were an increase on gross revenue, that would mean that businesses with revenues greater than $250,000 are currently paying more than 30% of these revenues to the govt -- which would mean it wouldn&#039;t make sense to go into business at all if your margin (revenues over expenses) wasn&#039;t well above 30%. So I&#039;m assuming, based on that, that the tax is on profits and not revenue.

But I spoke to a friend of mine (by text message) earlier today about this very question, and he led me to believe that he looked it up and the tax is applied to profits -- not revenue. (Although a Politico article implied the tax was on revenue, which was unfortunate if indeed the tax is on profits.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rbates: That&#8217;s a good question. I was told that the tax is on $250,000 net &#8212; that is, $250,000 profit. Right now, the tax rate is somewhere between 30% and 40%, and Obama is proposing an increase of about three percentage points.</p>
<p>If this were an increase on gross revenue, that would mean that businesses with revenues greater than $250,000 are currently paying more than 30% of these revenues to the govt &#8212; which would mean it wouldn&#8217;t make sense to go into business at all if your margin (revenues over expenses) wasn&#8217;t well above 30%. So I&#8217;m assuming, based on that, that the tax is on profits and not revenue.</p>
<p>But I spoke to a friend of mine (by text message) earlier today about this very question, and he led me to believe that he looked it up and the tax is applied to profits &#8212; not revenue. (Although a Politico article implied the tax was on revenue, which was unfortunate if indeed the tax is on profits.)</p>
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		<title>By: rbates</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber/comment-page-1/#comment-409</link>
		<dc:creator>rbates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I may be mistaken, but isn&#039;t the tax increase based on gross income?  If that&#039;s the case that isn&#039;t really a lot of money for a business.   If you gross $250,000 and have a staff to pay, along with insurance and any other overhead that doesn&#039;t leave you a whole lot.  But again, I am basing this on gross income.  Do you guys know if this is accurate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be mistaken, but isn&#8217;t the tax increase based on gross income?  If that&#8217;s the case that isn&#8217;t really a lot of money for a business.   If you gross $250,000 and have a staff to pay, along with insurance and any other overhead that doesn&#8217;t leave you a whole lot.  But again, I am basing this on gross income.  Do you guys know if this is accurate?</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber/comment-page-1/#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=513#comment-408</guid>
		<description>The whole idea of &quot;Joe the Plumber&quot; is that Joe -- by virtue of having an all-American name and an all American job -- represents middle-class America. (To paraphrase columnist Gene Robinson, &quot;Farhad the Systems Analyst&quot; wouldn&#039;t work.)

So let&#039;s assume that Joe is correct in saying that if he ended up buying that business he&#039;d like to buy, he would pay more in taxes under Obama&#039;s tax plan. That must mean that the business would generate PROFITS of more than $250,000 per year.

It is not all-American to make $250,000 per year. SOME Americans make $250,000 per year, but the vast majority do not. Joe may have a job that seems to represent working class American, but if he goes ahead and buys this business, he&#039;ll be making more than many corporate attorneys, more than many doctors.

If you think Joe the Plumber can take home $250,000 a year and still be considered working class or middle class, you&#039;re probably making that kind of money yourself. I would advise you to get your head out of your ...

Let&#039;s assume that Joe is wrong -- that even if he goes ahead and buys that new business, the business won&#039;t be making more than $250,000 per year.

In that case, we have to feel sorry for Joe. He&#039;s been duped once again by the Republicans into thinking that the Democratic candidate wants to raise his taxes -- even though it isn&#039;t true.

I&#039;ve also heard, by the way, that Joe owes back taxes and doesn&#039;t have a plumber&#039;s license. Can you own and operate a plumbing business generating $250,000-plus in profits without a plumbing license?

John McCain should be ashamed of himself for dragging an ordinary person into the spotlight of politics like this. Joe the Plumber cannot be expected to defend himself against the deluge of scrutiny he is likely to face now that he has become a political football. That said, John McCain&#039;s last chance in this campaign is to use Joe the Plumber to convince the American people that Obama will raise the taxes of ordinary Americans.

Joe, if you happen to be reading, I apologize sincerely for talking about you this way. I hate to drag you into the mud. It isn&#039;t personal. John McCain has thrown you to the wolves in a last-ditch effort to save his flailing campaign, and that leaves liberals who love this country with no choice except to tell the painful truth -- you are either wealthy (gasp!) or ignorant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole idea of &#8220;Joe the Plumber&#8221; is that Joe &#8212; by virtue of having an all-American name and an all American job &#8212; represents middle-class America. (To paraphrase columnist Gene Robinson, &#8220;Farhad the Systems Analyst&#8221; wouldn&#8217;t work.)</p>
<p>So let&#8217;s assume that Joe is correct in saying that if he ended up buying that business he&#8217;d like to buy, he would pay more in taxes under Obama&#8217;s tax plan. That must mean that the business would generate PROFITS of more than $250,000 per year.</p>
<p>It is not all-American to make $250,000 per year. SOME Americans make $250,000 per year, but the vast majority do not. Joe may have a job that seems to represent working class American, but if he goes ahead and buys this business, he&#8217;ll be making more than many corporate attorneys, more than many doctors.</p>
<p>If you think Joe the Plumber can take home $250,000 a year and still be considered working class or middle class, you&#8217;re probably making that kind of money yourself. I would advise you to get your head out of your &#8230;</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s assume that Joe is wrong &#8212; that even if he goes ahead and buys that new business, the business won&#8217;t be making more than $250,000 per year.</p>
<p>In that case, we have to feel sorry for Joe. He&#8217;s been duped once again by the Republicans into thinking that the Democratic candidate wants to raise his taxes &#8212; even though it isn&#8217;t true.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also heard, by the way, that Joe owes back taxes and doesn&#8217;t have a plumber&#8217;s license. Can you own and operate a plumbing business generating $250,000-plus in profits without a plumbing license?</p>
<p>John McCain should be ashamed of himself for dragging an ordinary person into the spotlight of politics like this. Joe the Plumber cannot be expected to defend himself against the deluge of scrutiny he is likely to face now that he has become a political football. That said, John McCain&#8217;s last chance in this campaign is to use Joe the Plumber to convince the American people that Obama will raise the taxes of ordinary Americans.</p>
<p>Joe, if you happen to be reading, I apologize sincerely for talking about you this way. I hate to drag you into the mud. It isn&#8217;t personal. John McCain has thrown you to the wolves in a last-ditch effort to save his flailing campaign, and that leaves liberals who love this country with no choice except to tell the painful truth &#8212; you are either wealthy (gasp!) or ignorant.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber/comment-page-1/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=513#comment-407</guid>
		<description>This speaks to the successful branding of taxes as money thrown the drain. This perfidious thought started in the 60&#039;s and reached its apogee under the Bush 43 administration.

Likewise is the recasting of Social Security as an &lt;i&gt;investment&lt;/i&gt; instead of what it really is, &lt;i&gt;insurance&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This speaks to the successful branding of taxes as money thrown the drain. This perfidious thought started in the 60&#8217;s and reached its apogee under the Bush 43 administration.</p>
<p>Likewise is the recasting of Social Security as an <i>investment</i> instead of what it really is, <i>insurance</i></p>
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