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	<title>Comments on: Krugman doesn&#8217;t make sense.</title>
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	<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/09/22/krugman-doesnt-make-sense/</link>
	<description>Yet another political blog</description>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/09/22/krugman-doesnt-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-288</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 04:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=406#comment-288</guid>
		<description>Ian: If the gov&#039;t buys mortgage based securities its risk and upside is only in the mortgage sectors. If it invests in financial companies its spread out over the entire world economy. Diversification writ large.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian: If the gov&#8217;t buys mortgage based securities its risk and upside is only in the mortgage sectors. If it invests in financial companies its spread out over the entire world economy. Diversification writ large.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/09/22/krugman-doesnt-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-287</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 03:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To John: I see your point about the potential upside of capital investment -- but couldn&#039;t the government also potentially reap some profits from buying up all those assets? Paulson has been arguing that under his plan, mortgage-backed securities would be bought and then later sold, probably for a profit. So why is capital investment in financial firms a better investment than the mortgage-backed securities Paulson wants to buy? Aren&#039;t we spreading our risk either way (but under a capital investment plan we&#039;re now joined at the hip to these financial firms)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To John: I see your point about the potential upside of capital investment &#8212; but couldn&#8217;t the government also potentially reap some profits from buying up all those assets? Paulson has been arguing that under his plan, mortgage-backed securities would be bought and then later sold, probably for a profit. So why is capital investment in financial firms a better investment than the mortgage-backed securities Paulson wants to buy? Aren&#8217;t we spreading our risk either way (but under a capital investment plan we&#8217;re now joined at the hip to these financial firms)?</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/09/22/krugman-doesnt-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 03:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=406#comment-286</guid>
		<description>I think despite the overly glib reference to Iraq Krugman did make a cogent argument.

It comes down to risk. Paulson&#039;s plan transfers all the risks to the gov&#039;t (since, as you note, it would have to overpay for the items). Now other plans, based more on capital injection, would spread the risk out between public and private. The Gov&#039;t might lose it&#039;s capital investment but at the same time it might be able to sell those shares for higher and net a profit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think despite the overly glib reference to Iraq Krugman did make a cogent argument.</p>
<p>It comes down to risk. Paulson&#8217;s plan transfers all the risks to the gov&#8217;t (since, as you note, it would have to overpay for the items). Now other plans, based more on capital injection, would spread the risk out between public and private. The Gov&#8217;t might lose it&#8217;s capital investment but at the same time it might be able to sell those shares for higher and net a profit.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/09/22/krugman-doesnt-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=406#comment-285</guid>
		<description>To say the current bailout plan &quot;doesn&#039;t appear to address the problem&quot; is absurd.

I don&#039;t have a degree in economics, but I can explain how the bailout plan addresses the problem.

Here&#039;s the problem: We&#039;re in a situation where the economy could see a severe meltdown, causing a great deal of suffering for the American people, if tons of banks start going bankrupt and everybody loses tons of money. A lot of bank bankruptcies could happen soon because the banks suddenly have very little cash to invest -- because the banks&#039; assets have shrunk in value due to a crisis of confidence on Wall Street and the collapse of the housing bubble.

The Paulson plan would rescue the economy by purchasing the horrible mortgages and related bad debt, preventing the banks from going bankrupt, thereby restoring confidence in the banks, the financial markets, and the economy.

Roughly speaking, the cause of the present economic crisis -- the &quot;X&quot; to which you refer -- is that people in the mortgage industry sold mortgages irresponsibly, and people in the financial industry invested in these mortgages irresponsibly -- so when the mortgages turned out to be horrible investments, it caused a chain reaction that was leading banks to go bankrupt.

The point of the bailout plan -- the &quot;Y&quot; -- is for the government to rescue the banks from these stupid mortgages, so the banks can go back to providing the credit the economy needs in order to function.

So I just don&#039;t understand what Krugman means when he says the proposed bailout doesn&#039;t appear to address the problem. I believe the plan WOULD address the problem. Am I missing something?

I haven&#039;t studied the Paulson plan and the Dodd plan, but I&#039;m guessing the Dodd plan is better. I happily agree that Congress should get the Dodd version if it can.

But that&#039;s not what Krugman is referring to when he says the Paulson plan &quot;doesn&#039;t make sense.&quot; Krugman&#039;s column isn&#039;t supporting Dodd&#039;s plan -- he&#039;s opposing Paulson&#039;s plan. (In other words, Krugman isn&#039;t saying the medicine has nasty side effects; he&#039;s saying the medicine won&#039;t work.) Krugman opposes the Paulson plan because he claims to think it doesn&#039;t &quot;makes sense,&quot; which suggests he thinks the plan will not accomplish what it is intended to accomplish.

Can you make an argument that the plan won&#039;t work the way it&#039;s supposed to? If you can&#039;t, then you must acknowledge that Krugman is being manipulative when he says the plan &quot;doesn&#039;t make sense.&quot;

I&#039;m not against more oversite. I&#039;m not against a bailout for people facing foreclosure. And I&#039;m not against limits on executive pay. What I am against is liberal pundits condemining a necessary bailout plan without being clear about why. I&#039;m sick of hearing about the Swedish financial crisis bailout. Is that your point: that our bailout should look more like Sweden&#039;s bailout for some mysterious reason?

More oversite may be necessary, but Krugman makes me nervous when he justifies the need for more oversite by pointing to an utterly irrelevant set of circumstances -- the Iraq War authorization -- apparently hoping my strong feelings about the war will somehow motivate me to fight for more oversite in a bailout bill.

This is a democracy, and I&#039;m entitled to ask: Oversite for what? What&#039;s the big deal? It&#039;s not a rhetorical question: I really want to know what&#039;s wrong with the Paulson bill. I don&#039;t care if the bill doesn&#039;t seem sufficiently similar to the S&amp;L scandal bailout or the Swedish financial crisis bailout -- what I care about is what Krugman is talking about when he says &quot;we&#039;ll all be very sorry in the not-too-distant-future&quot; if the bill passes in his current form.

I ask again: What is Krugman talking about? In other words, is all this opposition to the bailout plan just an attempt by Democrats to get additional goodies added on, or does the opposition actually reflect an honest criticism of the bailout plan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To say the current bailout plan &#8220;doesn&#8217;t appear to address the problem&#8221; is absurd.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a degree in economics, but I can explain how the bailout plan addresses the problem.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the problem: We&#8217;re in a situation where the economy could see a severe meltdown, causing a great deal of suffering for the American people, if tons of banks start going bankrupt and everybody loses tons of money. A lot of bank bankruptcies could happen soon because the banks suddenly have very little cash to invest &#8212; because the banks&#8217; assets have shrunk in value due to a crisis of confidence on Wall Street and the collapse of the housing bubble.</p>
<p>The Paulson plan would rescue the economy by purchasing the horrible mortgages and related bad debt, preventing the banks from going bankrupt, thereby restoring confidence in the banks, the financial markets, and the economy.</p>
<p>Roughly speaking, the cause of the present economic crisis &#8212; the &#8220;X&#8221; to which you refer &#8212; is that people in the mortgage industry sold mortgages irresponsibly, and people in the financial industry invested in these mortgages irresponsibly &#8212; so when the mortgages turned out to be horrible investments, it caused a chain reaction that was leading banks to go bankrupt.</p>
<p>The point of the bailout plan &#8212; the &#8220;Y&#8221; &#8212; is for the government to rescue the banks from these stupid mortgages, so the banks can go back to providing the credit the economy needs in order to function.</p>
<p>So I just don&#8217;t understand what Krugman means when he says the proposed bailout doesn&#8217;t appear to address the problem. I believe the plan WOULD address the problem. Am I missing something?</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t studied the Paulson plan and the Dodd plan, but I&#8217;m guessing the Dodd plan is better. I happily agree that Congress should get the Dodd version if it can.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s not what Krugman is referring to when he says the Paulson plan &#8220;doesn&#8217;t make sense.&#8221; Krugman&#8217;s column isn&#8217;t supporting Dodd&#8217;s plan &#8212; he&#8217;s opposing Paulson&#8217;s plan. (In other words, Krugman isn&#8217;t saying the medicine has nasty side effects; he&#8217;s saying the medicine won&#8217;t work.) Krugman opposes the Paulson plan because he claims to think it doesn&#8217;t &#8220;makes sense,&#8221; which suggests he thinks the plan will not accomplish what it is intended to accomplish.</p>
<p>Can you make an argument that the plan won&#8217;t work the way it&#8217;s supposed to? If you can&#8217;t, then you must acknowledge that Krugman is being manipulative when he says the plan &#8220;doesn&#8217;t make sense.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not against more oversite. I&#8217;m not against a bailout for people facing foreclosure. And I&#8217;m not against limits on executive pay. What I am against is liberal pundits condemining a necessary bailout plan without being clear about why. I&#8217;m sick of hearing about the Swedish financial crisis bailout. Is that your point: that our bailout should look more like Sweden&#8217;s bailout for some mysterious reason?</p>
<p>More oversite may be necessary, but Krugman makes me nervous when he justifies the need for more oversite by pointing to an utterly irrelevant set of circumstances &#8212; the Iraq War authorization &#8212; apparently hoping my strong feelings about the war will somehow motivate me to fight for more oversite in a bailout bill.</p>
<p>This is a democracy, and I&#8217;m entitled to ask: Oversite for what? What&#8217;s the big deal? It&#8217;s not a rhetorical question: I really want to know what&#8217;s wrong with the Paulson bill. I don&#8217;t care if the bill doesn&#8217;t seem sufficiently similar to the S&#038;L scandal bailout or the Swedish financial crisis bailout &#8212; what I care about is what Krugman is talking about when he says &#8220;we&#8217;ll all be very sorry in the not-too-distant-future&#8221; if the bill passes in his current form.</p>
<p>I ask again: What is Krugman talking about? In other words, is all this opposition to the bailout plan just an attempt by Democrats to get additional goodies added on, or does the opposition actually reflect an honest criticism of the bailout plan?</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/2008/09/22/krugman-doesnt-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-284</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 01:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historyishappeningnow.com/?p=406#comment-284</guid>
		<description>Your response to this op-ed doesn&#039;t make sense, I think.  Krugman lays out a clear, albeit truncated, argument.  It goes like this.  The cause of our present economic crisis is X.  The Paulson plan addresses Y.  Therefore it &quot;doesn&#039;t make sense,&quot; in the sense of &quot;doesn&#039;t appear to address the problem&quot; rather than in the sense &quot;is baffling and impossible to understand.&quot;  If we want to address X, Krugman is saying, we have models of successful bailouts we can look at, such as the S&amp;L scandal (and, not mentioned, the Swedish financial crisis bailout).  Now, Dodd has what Krugman considers to be a superior bailout package, a bailout more consonant with those previous successful bailouts.  No one is suggesting we do nothing.  Do you have a reason why you prefer the Paulson bailout to the Dodd version?  This isn&#039;t a question of Paulson or nothing.  We have alternatives.  That&#039;s Krugman&#039;s point, completely unambiguous and sensible enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your response to this op-ed doesn&#8217;t make sense, I think.  Krugman lays out a clear, albeit truncated, argument.  It goes like this.  The cause of our present economic crisis is X.  The Paulson plan addresses Y.  Therefore it &#8220;doesn&#8217;t make sense,&#8221; in the sense of &#8220;doesn&#8217;t appear to address the problem&#8221; rather than in the sense &#8220;is baffling and impossible to understand.&#8221;  If we want to address X, Krugman is saying, we have models of successful bailouts we can look at, such as the S&#038;L scandal (and, not mentioned, the Swedish financial crisis bailout).  Now, Dodd has what Krugman considers to be a superior bailout package, a bailout more consonant with those previous successful bailouts.  No one is suggesting we do nothing.  Do you have a reason why you prefer the Paulson bailout to the Dodd version?  This isn&#8217;t a question of Paulson or nothing.  We have alternatives.  That&#8217;s Krugman&#8217;s point, completely unambiguous and sensible enough.</p>
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